Lawyer Jordana Goldlist is changing how we think about criminal offenders

For this week’s MVP, we’re chatting with Jordana Goldlist.

Meet Toronto-based criminal defence lawyer Jordana Goldlist. She transformed an unfortunate series of teenage drug charges—plus just enough time behind bars and more than two years living on the streets—into the foundation of her successful law firm and passion for high-stakes cases and clients whose rights were stomped on (as hers once were, but more on that later). Once she decided to come clean about her past, Goldlist first delivered a popular TED Talk and now hosts the podcast—Who Judges the Judge?—she needed as a teenager in trouble with the law. In this week’s MVP, Goldlist tells us about how she turned her life around, why everyone deserves a good defence and whether her past helps or hinders her in a courtroom.

When and why did you decide to be a lawyer?

I knew I wanted to be a lawyer since I was eight years old—long before I got in trouble with the law. I was arrested twice when I was 16 for marijuana-related offences. The first time, I was in custody for four or five days then released on bail and strict house arrest. I didn’t know anything about the process, so I was sort of dealing with it on my own.

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I did not have a good lawyer. I don’t think I was given the opportunity to have a trial on either occasion, so I pled guilty. Four months later, I was arrested again. I think I spent 18 months on probation after the second offence. I eventually got discharges on both occurrences, so luckily they didn’t follow me, because eventually my ambition came back and I went to Osgoode Law School.

And 25 years later, pot’s legal and you can smoke all you want.

I haven’t consumed drugs in 22 years, even though it’s legal now. These days, I wouldn’t even have got in trouble for what I did. But 30 years ago, the charges scared me more than anything else. More than being in jail, because I saw where the cycle of repeat offending takes people.

Carrying a criminal record with you into your future can have huge effects moving forward. When people get into legal trouble, most want to just end the matter and get it off their plate as soon as possible. I try to steer people away from the fastest and cheapest way and remind people to think big picture.

If you could go back, how would you handle your case differently?

I don’t ever think of life like that, because if I did, I’d be paralyzed with regret. I try to think of everything as a learning experience, and I certainly learned my lessons. But if I had to advise someone in a similar situation, I would certainly not do what my lawyer did.

My first case was definitely an illegal detention, followed by an illegal search, and therefore an unlawful arrest. Now I see the Charter issues in how the police treated me the first time I was arrested. But to think “what if?” or “could this have been different?” is torturing yourself and probably the worst way to walk through life.

Once you became a lawyer yourself, why did you decide to tell your story?

At first, I didn’t. I kept quiet until I started winning cases and building a business for myself. Once I felt like I was going to be OK, I thought more about stereotypes and stigma. Over the years, I’ve heard the same sorts of things about the particular character of someone charged with a criminal offence. I vehemently oppose that notion because so many people come through my office for very different reasons, and no one has this “bad” or “evil” character just because they’re charged with a crime.

Obviously some people who commit criminal offences are not “good” humans, but there are at least an equal number, if not more, that are simply responding to the situations and circumstances where they’ve found themselves. I felt like that was missing from the narrative—and I was that narrative. Meanwhile, someone who followed me on social media loved my backstory and asked if I wanted to expand on it and talk about the justice system and the way that I practise inside it. It was a good opportunity, so I took it.

Did you face any stigma from the legal community?

I don’t know. If I did, or do, I ignore it. It’s true that once I released my TED Talk, I thought my whole career was over. I truly thought that was it for me. It wasn’t, and it actually had the opposite effect. It really expanded my career in some very meaningful ways. 

I don’t use my own personal experiences or anecdotes in court, and I don’t lecture anyone.But my past deeply informs the way I work. We all walk through life carrying our history with us, and it guides our perspectives. They change and shift, but our history is always the lens through which we view the world. If my lens is possibly negative, I don’t feel it. My clients don’t feel it. I’m just ready to focus on the issues at hand.

Tell me about your podcast?

After the TED talk, almost two years ago, I started Who Judges the Judge? It’s a cheeky take on the criminal justice system, but really it’s about the people behind the cases. I’ve featured lawyers; I’ve featured victims; I’ve featured accused persons. I’ve featured people who have come through addiction.

On one of my recent podcasts, I had my first judge on the show. There are a lot of podcasts that focus on the law, but I focus on the people. I often try to address the questions that I either get DM’d or asked when I’m at a gala event and someone I’m seated with finds out I’m a criminal lawyer.

People have so many questions for and about lawyers, and I’m trying to answer them openly and honestly—and with empathy.

No matter who they are, everyone has a common theme of struggles and perseverance. You won’t know that unless you spend some time getting to know them.

Read more from this issue of The Get:

1. Why scammers are suddenly interested in your internet cookies
2. Do you have to buy everything, right now, all at once, for back to school?
3. What is a prenup agreement? Should Canadian couples get one?
4. Teaching Gen Z (and younger Canadians) how to spend and save